AusWolfNo, it's not. IT doesn't necessarily mean coding. I can be keen on IT without knowing how to write a program. I'm keen on PC parts, building PCs, configuring OSes, games, etc. I don't know a lick about coding because I don't have to. PC is my hobby, not my job. Every modern OS should be fully controllable through its GUI, regardless of some oldschool Linux users knowing how to use the Terminal more effectively.


I'm keen on driving anything, but I'm not keen on learning how to build a car. That's up to the factory, not me.

Edit: Terminal, Command Prompt, PowerShell, you name it, is a thing from the 1980s, unless you're a developer. As a home user, you should never have to rely on these things. A home user should never have to remember any code.

using a terminal does not mean you are a developer.

remixedcatusing a terminal does not mean you are a developer.

Nah, I agree with that. It is sort of "power user" territory at minimum though.

remixedcatusing a terminal does not mean you are a developer.

That's not what I mean. My point is that you should not be required to use the terminal unless you're a developer.

AusWolfThat's not what I mean. My point is that you should not be required to use the terminal unless you're a developer.

often times terminals can be easier since you can batch process things that would take longer on a gui.
some things don't even need a gui as well.

fixing problems in linux terminal often only takes 1-3lines that you can just copy and paste into the terminal, the same kinda fix might not be avalible in other OSes or require a long list of instructions on how to do it.

remixedcatoften times terminals can be easier since you can batch process things that would take longer on a gui.

Easier for you maybe, because you're used to it. For me, these things always start with googling and reading articles, which takes infinitely longer than clicking on the appropriate option in a program.

remixedcatsome things don't even need a gui as well.

It's your opinion. Also, it doesn't mean we shouldn't have GUI for ease of use. It's not 1980 anymore.

remixedcatfixing problems in linux terminal often only takes 1-3lines that you can just copy and paste into the terminal, the same kinda fix might not be avalible in other OSes or require a long list of instructions on how to do it.

1-3 lines that you have to find on the internet first. Why can't I just have it right in front of me as tickboxes?

An example: a friend of mine gave me a Raspberry Pi last year that he configured to work as a home NAS. At one point, I had to restart it because of a drive failure, and I couldn't for the love of God reconfigure it. He did it with a program he downloaded and about a dozen lines in the terminal. On Windows, it only takes a couple of clicks to attach a network folder to your LAN. Why does such a simple thing have to be so complicated in Linux?

OnasiThat “professional”, or rather “enterprise”, market is not what you seem to think it is. It isn’t solely server and datacenters. It’s mostly volume licenses of their software for use on PCs that are still manned very much by ordinary users for whom the very idea of using CLI is anathema.
So asking why MS would pour resources into GUI development when most user-facing changes they have been announcing and pushing for almost two decades now were strictly changes to said GUI experience is a baffling take.

I'm sorry that i din't made it more clear. Since 25 years i'm a project manager for software rollouts. If a company owning 1.000+ clients or 200+ servers and need a new OS installed they use to ask me how it will be done and if i would do that. Usually the customers wants to have that switch processed at a single day on a weehend. Getting home on friday shutting down the old system, getting to work and start the bew system on monday.

When i.e. 32.000 PC have to be switched in such a rollout you don't want to have somebody intracted via a GUI. The whole process of a rollout has to be done automated.

1st: In a professional environment the users are not allowed to change their system . The users aren't admin's.
2nd: MS is earning money with windows. At linux nearby nobody earns money.

AusWolfTo clarify, I'm not against the existence of the Terminal. I'm against the idea that even a regular Joe, like myself, should learn it for basic OS functions that can be accessed through the GUI on other OSes.

Just pay to get a gui developed.

Did you realize the differences in both OS'ses? You want to tell othrs what they should do in their free time in the evening after their work. Lay back, be thankful to the developers and acceppt what they did instead of charging. Windows is made by one firm making money with it. Linux is made by a hell of private people gerring nothing. Mostly not even a "thank you". The roots of linux is one single student in a university in finland who was interested how an OS works. And he started to develop one.

For years i developed a business framework. That one was able to run on any Computer compatible on running Mono. It took me 10 years to get that system compiling the source at the client and run the system out of the RAM. It's been a quite complicated system inside. But the whole database was defined in a Excel workbook... I developed it in my spare time. When i was at a project anywhere in the world sitting in my boardinghouse appartment. Instead of watching braindead tv-shows.

I’m shocked…really.

gurusmiJust pay to get a gui developed.

Did you realize the differences in both OS'ses? You want to tell othrs what they should do in their free time in the evening after their work. Lay back, be thankful to the developers and acceppt what they did instead of charging. Windows is made by one firm making money with it. Linux is made by a hell of private people gerring nothing. Mostly not even a "thank you". The roots of linux is one single student in a university in finland who was interested how an OS works. And he started to develop one.

For years i developed a business framework. That one was able to run on any Computer compatible on running Mono. It took me 10 years to get that system compiling the source at the client and run the system out of the RAM. It's been a quite complicated system inside. But the whole database was defined in a Excel workbook... I developed it in my spare time. When i was at a project anywhere in the world sitting in my boardinghouse appartment. Instead of watching braindead tv-shows.

I'm not telling anyone what to do in their free time. I'm only saying what I need in an OS, and what I think Linux needs in order to be a real competitor to Windows. You can't deny the fact that the number of people (regular people, not system admins) that can use CLI on any operating system is extremely small. Without catering to such needs, Linux will never become mainstream.

When your choice is either paying a company that you don't like for an OS that is full of ads, but at least it does what you want (Windows), or getting an OS for free that does basic things well, but if you want to do anything with it, you have to invest time and effort into learning code, then I think the choice is obvious for 9 out of 10 people.

I knew it was only a matter of time.

pcmasterrace/comments/1chnyvo

guess i WILL buy the 2y extension of EOL of my 10 then..

@jojolapin102
not paid a single penny/cent since 7, not sure what you did.
while depending on which "one": how is it with drivers, gaming?
right.

Waldorfguess i WILL buy the 2y extension of EOL of my 10 then..

I won't buy anything. If 10 gets EOL and doesn't receive any more updates, so what? ;)

since i havent paid for anything after ME, i dont mind paying a little to keep 10.
and updates arent always for security reasons.. ;)

Waldorfsince i havent paid for anything after ME, i dont mind paying a little to keep 10.
and updates arent always for security reasons.. ;)

All I need is to run Chrome and my games. I don't care about the extras. :)

yeah, but what if an update fixes hw issue, that wont allow you to use the gpu (you just upgraded to) ?
its less for the first 2 y than i would have spend on buying 7/8/10, unless a heavily discounted digital key..

Waldorfyeah, but what if an update fixes hw issue, that wont allow you to use the gpu (you just upgraded to) ?
its less for the first 2 y than i would have spend on buying 7/8/10, unless a heavily discounted digital key..

I've never seen such an issue. If I do, I guess I'll have to re-learn Linux then.

guess i must have imagined all those updates/fixes for the ryzen platform on 10/11 then... :D

Waldorfguess i must have imagined all those updates/fixes for the ryzen platform on 10/11 then...

You're probably not imagining it, but I don't remember having it.

But like I said, if I ever encounter any serious issue that only paying for Windows 11, or an LTS licence for 10 can solve, then I'll switch to Linux.

EijiI'm using LTSC 2024 build 26100. It's not an Insider build but it's highly likely this is the release (RTM candidate / base build) that will be installed on OEM systems and will be patched with further CU's in the coming months before general release of 24H2 later in the year.

thank you for mentioning it. didn't know it exists. got one and testing :)

AleXXX666thank you for mentioning it. didn't know it exists. got one and testing :)

It has been rock solid stable for me and even received a cumulative update through retail channel (no Insider Program enrollment required) via Windows Update so that's an even bigger confirmation that it's the RTM build.

OnasiI am getting a sense of deja vu from all the previous times Linux had a “best chance” to supplant Windows.
I am willing to bet significant sums of money that this time will go exactly like all those previous ones.

Well, at this stage if people are still willing to put up with that c(ar)p, then they have earned what's coming to them.

GrumpyOtakuWell, at this stage if people are still willing to put up with that c(ar)p, then they have earned what's coming to them.

A lot of people falsely believe that they have to put up with everything because there is no alternative to common market trends. There is always an alternative, one just has to look for it, which a lot of people are too lazy to do.

EijiIt has been rock solid stable for me and even received a cumulative update through retail channel (no Insider Program enrollment required) via Windows Update so that's an even bigger confirmation that it's the RTM build.

tested in as primary on laptop. Roblox game doesn't work (lol, yeah), so gotta reinstall "rock-solid (for NOW)" 21H2 (don't like 22 and 23 onwards, both were buggy at some point!), but was very happy from "pureness". Waiting for Roblox team optimisation for these "newer builds" or Microsoft "magic tinkles" with final RTM. But, thanks for MS for making LTSC "great again", lol.:)