not impressed - nvme vs ssd

[flamethrower1972]

Oh? Your title for this thread would suggest you did expect more and did fall for the marketing hype.

There is a HUGE difference between the fastest hard drive and the slowest SSD. But once you step into the realm of SSDs, the differences become much smaller and often unnoticeable - except on paper, or, maybe, in a double blind, side by side, simultaneous (and definitely not a week, day or even hour apart, but simultaneous!) comparison.

And when it comes to disk activities, there are other variables that come into play - in particular, the amount of RAM you have available, other variables too.

When you are sitting in the stands, the difference between a car going 100mph and and another car going 200mph is readily apparent. But the difference between 200mph and 210mph (unless side by side) is not.

I so agree with you from 5400 Mbs to 7000 Mbs I do see a increase in load time.

 

[bonehead123]

Here we go, AGAIN.....

This subject has been beat to death over & over again, and is very exhausting and annoying to try to explain to the non-believers...

The ONLY real way to test/witness the differences in drive speeds is with 2 identical computers, with identical hardware, software, drivers, applications, use cases, and everything else except the drives themselves....

Only then will you experience/see the true, measurable differences between SATA & m.2 SSD's...

There, I said it, so just sue me if you think otherwise, hehehe

When nvme's first came out, with the assistance of our highly-qualified IT crew, we conducted our own tests with the high-end workstations @the office, and with our workloads (CAD/CAMM/Image manipulation, heavy database analytics), the speed increases were definitely noticeable, to the point of saving us mega-bucks in rendering & production times every single day...

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Well In reality for every day user aka the average Joe the difference is not always visible because it's depends what are you doing with your PC.....for example windows or many games will load almost the same or it will be some negligible difference that's because most of games or our system windows have a bunch of small files that loads constantly but if you doing some large file transfer you will probably see some significant difference in speed.......

 

[dirtyferret]

I have two SATA SSD, two NVMe Gen 3 and one Gen 4. Can't tell the difference between any of them doing day to day stuff yet I see the difference when I benchmark them. Like Bill stated

difference between 200mph and 210mph (unless side by side) is not

 

[Wirko]

When nvme's first came out, with the assistance of our highly-qualified IT crew, we conducted our own tests with the high-end workstations @the office, and with our workloads (CAD/CAMM/Image manipulation, heavy database analytics), the speed increases were definitely noticeable, to the point of saving us mega-bucks in rendering & production times every single day...

That sounds like moving many TB of large files every day, so you were probably able to make a good estimation of time saved even before buying the NVMe's. (By the way, were those M.2 or something intended for serious use?)

 

[Dr. Dro]

This is a troll thread but the truth is that there are many factors involved. My decision to stick to now-inexpensive high-end Gen 3 drives such as the WD Black SN750 I've recently got hasn't been one that I've come to regret.

 

[Wirko]

This is a troll thread

Or rather a thread started by someone a bit confused when it comes to NVMes and SSDs. Well, it's not hard to be confused when it comes to SSDs. We the wizards are always here to save any kind of thread ... almost any.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Or rather a thread started by someone a bit confused when it comes to NVMes and SSDs. Well, it's not hard to be confused when it comes to SSDs. We the wizards are always here to save any kind of thread ... almost any.

I'd say that the difference between a fool and a troll is that the fool is willing to learn and doesn't have an attitude, like the OP

 

[Wirko]

I'd say that the difference between a fool and a troll is that the fool is willing to learn and doesn't have an attitude, like the OP

never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by ... eh, forget it.

 

[bonehead123]

That sounds like moving many TB of large files every day, so you were probably able to make a good estimation of time saved even before buying the NVMe's. (By the way, were those M.2 or something intended for serious use?)

Of course they were m.2's....and yes, we work with a buttload of extremely large files & databases nearly 24/7, as we run 3 shifts, each with about 2 hours of overlap for in-person or teams collaboration & handoffs.

We already had tons of slower sata SSD's from our older pc's, and we tested every one of them against the m.2's, then IT charted out the results, which as I said, the m.2's saved us a buttload of production time/hours.....

We currently use a buttload (~400) of 4TB SN850x's, many of which are in multiple RAID arrays, and they are considerably faster than the earlier versions, so we are getting even more bangs for our bucks

However, we also have a large collection of 6, 8, 12, & 16TB HDD's for back-ups, long-term storage, and the occasional hot swaps....

 

[Waldorf]

@inquisitor1
might wanna start filling out your sys specs, and reading up on what words like ssd actually mean,
as it has nothing to do with the drive perf.
you expect ppl to take you serious, when you cant even make the proper comparison in your title.

and: let me see the same drive running the same amount/type of data, when running on
something like 12/16C cpu, and then tell me there is no difference..
(any "processing" i have done in the past 15y, has improved by having more cores/raw cpu perf,
nothing else).

 

[Wirko]

Of course they were m.2's....and yes, we work with a buttload of extremely large nearly 24/7, as we run 3 shifts, each with about 2 hours of overlap for in-person or teams collaboration & handoffs.

No U.2 or PCIe slot SSDs or other enterprise form factors? That's what I meant by "serious".

 

[Waldorf]

@Wirko
as with many things, probably cost.
why waste XX on a drive if, you can have multiple drives, doing similar throupoutput, for X..

 

[freeagent]

Windows installs hella fast on nvme compared to my sata ssd's

 

[dgianstefani]

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/benchmarks/?benchmark=rand50#sort=-randread50&page=1

Interesting that PCPartPicker is starting to do benchmarks.

In other words, Optane still topping charts for random read (3x faster). Sequential marketing numbers the gen 5 drives still win.

Random write it's 1 GB/s instead of 1.5 GB/s for the fastest NAND drives, but since most of what we do is reads, seems more useful to have significantly faster stats there, and take a small hit in writes.

Of course that high writes number for NAND flash assumes you have enough space for SLC cache...

Optane performance doesn't change at 0% or 100% full.

905p doesn't even give up the random writes. Though from memory in many ways it's a bit slower than the P1600X which is second gen Optane.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/P7mmP6,34ytt6,MmP8TW/

Interesting comparison.

 

[Waldorf]

@freeagent
except for those that thought the sata pcie M2, is the same as nvme M.2..

@dgianstefani
just wish that large optane or true slc drives werent so expensive,
as i would like one for backup drive.

 

[Wirko]

sata pcie M2

Wazzdat?

 

[Waldorf]

M.2 (connected to pcie slot) running in sata mode?!
just because its an M.2 (as in pcie connected), doesnt mean the drive itself is a pcie (drive).

 

[Dragam1337]

The main advantage of ssd's over hdd's in daily usage is massively faster access times. So once you are on any ssd you already have that advantage... you just get more read /write speed with nvme, which doesn't make nearly as much of a difference in daily usage.

 

[Waldorf]

@Dragam1337
depends on what your "daily usage" is.
ppl on forums like this, arent the typical buyers of off-the shelf-units with a single sata drive.

dont care to have the fastest possible (e.g. gen5/MB cooler not enough), but short of an older sata drive i now use as ext backup,
i prefer all my M.2s to be at least gen4, as just imaging the os drive for backup, now takes not even 2min incl verification.

and even that im not a production studio, working with shadow files in editing sw, especially consider most
multirotors/consumer video cams now do 4K, having "true" pcie drive(s) will make a noticeable difference.

 

[Wirko]

M.2 (connected to pcie slot) running in sata mode?!
just because its an M.2 (as in pcie connected), doesnt mean the drive itself is a pcie (drive).

See, it's easy to get confused.

PCIe and SATA are not compatibe. But the M.2 connector is rather universal: it can carry PCIe signals, or SATA signals, or both, and more (like USB).

* If the mobo connector is M.2 PCIe, you can plug in a M.2 PCIe SSD - but the same SSD works in the big PCIe slot too, with a simple adapter card.
* If the mobo connector is M.2 SATA, you can plug in a M.2 SATA SSD - but a 2.5" SATA SSD works too, with a simple adapter.
* If the mobo connector is combined M.2 PCIe+SATA, you can plug in either type of M.2 SSD. Many modern boards have one such slot.

NVMe is the command set that is used on top of PCIe, and AHCI is the command set that is used on top of SATA - I'm not aware of other combinations.

 

[dgianstefani]

@freeagent
except for those that thought the sata pcie M2, is the same as nvme M.2..

@dgianstefani
just wish that large optane or true slc drives werent so expensive,
as i would like one for backup drive.

You can get new 1.5 TB drives for ~$500

It's cheaper when you factor in how they will last much longer and read/write 3x faster.

It's only if you're considering the P5800X gen 2 drives it starts getting into several thousand $.

 

[Waldorf]

@Wirko
not sure as why you are explaining this (to me), as you were the one saying wazzdat (not me).

@dgianstefani
well kinda out of the question for me (to spend as much on a single drive, than equal/almost my next gpu upgrade (so to speak),
as im more interested in long term storage than (write) endurance.
but having seen (long term) data center reports with high controller failure rates (vs expected),
i chose to stick with multiple drives having identical data (4), instead of 1 or 2 (better) ones.
but still would like to have a real "fast" one, to use as the one thats always "up-to-date".

 

[Dragam1337]

@Dragam1337
depends on what your "daily usage" is.
ppl on forums like this, arent the typical buyers of off-the shelf-units with a single sata drive.

dont care to have the fastest possible (e.g. gen5/MB cooler not enough), but short of an older sata drive i now use as ext backup,
i prefer all my M.2s to be at least gen4, as just imaging the os drive for backup, now takes not even 2min incl verification.

and even that im not a production studio, working with shadow files in editing sw, especially consider most
multirotors/consumer video cams now do 4K, having "true" pcie drive(s) will make a noticeable difference.

For users on this forum it's usually mostly about epeen with everything.

I have no issues with the majority of my storage being sata ssd's.

 

[freeagent]

Everything is about epeen with you guys lol. Cmon now.